How To Be Intentional About Taking Time Off From Your Career
Episode 480 | Host: Emilie Aries | Guest: Laura Nguyen
A strategic framework for taking a career break.
High achievers, overwork, burnout, work/life balance…these are terms that come up a lot on this podcast because we’re a bunch of driven professional women striving to live our most fulfilling lives while also building impactful careers. Chances are, the thought of taking a break longer than a week has crossed your mind, but I bet you’d be skeptical if I told you it’s doable. I know I was when I first came across the work of today’s podcast guest.
Laura Nguyen is the author of Career Break Compass: Navigating Your Path to a Balanced Life Through Intentional Time Off. and serves as an executive coach helping others plan for intentional time away from work. She transitioned from a high-performance, high-stress marketing career to guiding high-achievers like herself in planning and pursuing career breaks that let them come back better than ever. She talks me through her four-step framework for making the most of your time off on today’s new episode.
Is a career break seriously an option?
A lot of potential barriers crop up when we consider taking a career break. Laura cites that the most common ones she hears from her clients are worries about what others will think, concerns about financials, and whether they will be able to find a job when they’re ready to come back. All of these are completely legitimate, but they aren’t insurmountable.
When you’re bit by the career break bug, Laura recommends first figuring out what options for time away are available to you. In the U.S., we have a lot of systemic work to do in terms of paid time off (PTO)—there’s no question we’re delving into a realm of some privilege here—but you might not know what’s out there until you dig a bit.
First off, some companies do offer pretty robust PTO options, even going so far as to have sabbatical programs built into their benefits. And remember: even if something isn’t spelled out in your contract, you can always bring it up as a topic for negotiation!
You do have leverage here. Losing you for a few months and then getting you back refreshed is pretty beneficial to your employer. If the alternative is quitting, not only do they get to skip the cost and time of filling your position and training someone new, but they also benefit from that renewed vigor and focus upon your return.
If voluntary paid time off just isn’t possible, Laura reminds us that mental health leaves and unpaid leaves of absence are alternatives to quitting, if that’s not your goal. And don’t forget to look into what rights and protections are legally available to you as a worker before you make your final decision.
A strategic structure for your career break
In true high-achiever fashion, Laura threw herself fully into preparing for and planning out her career break, and the framework she developed paved the way for her book and the work she now does with clients.
When she started researching how people have gone about taking time off, she saw a lot of folks online talking about one and two-year sabbaticals. For her, taking that much time just didn’t feel achievable for her lifestyle and goals. So instead, she set about creating a three or four-month “pilot program.” Ultimately, this adjustment led to the kind of career break that’s a lot more accessible for people.
The four Ps of Laura’s Compass Framework guided her and now guide her clients and anyone reading her book through a sustainable process for taking time off that really refreshes the body, mind, and soul:
Schedule time for Play
When we’re young, so much of our lives revolves around play, and we develop a lot of skills while we’re having fun. As adults, though, the demands of paid and unpaid work tend to push out easy opportunities to inject playfulness.
Laura stresses that we need to find activities that get us in a state of flow and out of our heads if we really want our career breaks to jumpstart lasting change. If you aren’t sure how to answer the question, “What do you do for fun?”, then it’s time to actively look for what infuses joy in your life. The National Institute of Play’s Play Personalities quiz could help!
Take a beat and Pause
If you’re like me, just hearing that you’ll be expected to pause during your career break might feel disorienting. But Laura says that as hard as this part is, this part is essential. So much data supports the benefits of mindfulness and meditation. Giving yourself the space to just sit with your thoughts, scary as that might sound, is how you’ll start to tap into the inner voice that wants to reveal the life you want to live.
Prepare a Plan
Ah, now we’re back to a word we movers and shakers are more comfortable with, yes?
One difference between taking a long vacation and taking the intentional time off that Laura encourages is this step of sitting down to figure out, in detail, the life you want to lead and how you want to show up in the world. The first part of this is getting clear on your core values, which help you set the boundaries that will guide you going forward.
Laura’s new book, Career Break Compass, shares her Career Decision Exploration Matrix, a worksheet to help you score all the things you might want to do based on their alignment with your values and skills and financial pros and cons.
Laura also encourages doing a time audit to see how you spend your time and build out your own Eisenhower matrix to help you spend it more wisely and effectively. The key, she explains, is having tools you can turn to so you can stay on a sustainable path to personal and professional success.
Pursue your new path
The final P in Laura’s framework involves putting the work of the previous three steps into action. Get out there and do the things you identified that light you up from both a play and a career perspective. An intentional career break isn’t about stepping away only to return to the same hectic, burnout-bound rat race once again. It’s about making sure you can continue to pursue your goals by infusing everything you discover into a life of newfound purpose.
Listen to the full recording of my conversation with Laura to hear even more about how her pilot program break shifted her career and how she plans to incorporate future intentional time off.
How might you make this burnout-busting option a reality in your own life? I’d love to hear how our conversation has changed your thoughts about the possibility of a career break for yourself. Come visit the Courage Community on Facebook or join our group on LinkedIn to weigh in!
Related links from today’s episode:
Connect with Laura on LinkedIn
Episode 136, Is Job-Sharing the Secret to True Work/Life Balance
Episode 456, How Connection Can Cure What Ails Us
A Better Balance, workers’ legal advocacy organization
The Effects of Decision Fatigue on Judicial Behavior
Play: How It Shapes the Brain, Opens the Imagination, and Invigorates the Soul by Dr. Stuart Brown
Take my LinkedIn course, Managing Career Burnout
Discover more tools to manage and mitigate career burnout:
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[INTRO MUSIC IN]
EMILIE: Hey, and welcome to the Bossed Up podcast, episode 480. I'm your host, Emilie Aries, the Founder and CEO of Bossed Up. And today I want to talk about taking a career break.
[INTRO MUSIC ENDS]
Is this something you've ever daydreamed about? Taking a sabbatical or traveling the world for a year? It seems so out of reach for most of us. But today's guest is going to break down how she not only made it happen for herself, but how any of us can really walk a roadmap that she's created for us to make taking career breaks not only possible, but a regular part of our career planning. If that sounds enticing to you, which it certainly did for me, even if I felt a little skeptical about its plausibility, you're not going to want to miss today's episode.
Joining me to break all this down is Laura Nguyen, and today she's out with a brand new book, Career Break Compass: Navigating Your Path To A Balanced Life Through Intentional Time Off. Laura is a certified executive coach, helping mid-career, high achieving leaders go from burnt out to balanced through her coaching programs and online community. Laura's received her Bachelor of Arts and Bachelor of Science at Truman State University and her Master's in Business Administration from Rochester Institute of Technology. She lives in Des Moines, Iowa with her family and she's an experienced marketing executive and entrepreneur with an extensive background in data driven marketing, digital marketing and communications for Fortune 500 companies. She's also the founder of Sole Solutions, a marketing consultancy.
And today, Laura's here to talk through how she's made a career break not only happen for herself, but how we can, too. Laura, welcome to the Bossed Up podcast.
LAURA: Thanks for having me. So excited to be here.
EMILIE: I'm so excited to have you here. And congratulations on today's publication of Career Break Compass: Navigating Your Path To A Balanced Life Through Intentional Time Off.
LAURA: Thank you. Thank you. I'm so excited. I'm so excited to be able to share it with everyone today. Happy to talk about it and kind of share a little bit of my journey of what brought me to this point and what's in it.
EMILIE: Well, I already feel such kindred spirits here because a lot of women listening will know that I am an achiever and I have been around the burnout block, so to speak, and you share some of those characteristics. So tell me, what has led you to becoming the disciple of career breaks, of all things, after being such a high achiever for so long?
LAURA: Yeah. Well, first off, I never thought I would write a book on this topic. I would say I was even like an anti-napper before I went on a career break. And when I experienced so much burnout, like, I had bought into the hustle culture, and I spent, you know, 18 years in high performance marketing. So I was leading teams as an executive leader for a really long time and always looking to climb that next ladder. Like, I always joke, you know, if you showed me a ladder, I would climb it as fast as possible. And it was at school, even in college, like, you know, and especially shifting into a full time work world, was constantly looking at opportunities for me to continue to grow, continue to show my effort, right?
And so in my first job, I was working 70 hours a week. I think I got promoted, like, six times in three years. Like, it was like I was a machine of, you know, overwork. And then I kept taking those habits with me at every other workplace. And it had served me to be totally honest, right? Was that, I was able to find opportunities. I was getting promoted, I was getting more responsibility, you know, and I had always been, I think one of the biggest challenges for me was recognizing that, you know, I'd always been the youngest person in the room. I was typically the female in the room. I was the person of color in the room, and those types of areas where I wanted to make sure that I was, you know, good enough that I was able to showcase what I was able to do.
And so I think that ultimately led to really extreme burnout in my, you know, in the last stage of my full time career of trying to identify how can I keep going? How can I keep going at this pace? And if the next level, you know, begins with the C and looking at whether or not it's a C-suite level for me, do I want it? And do I have what's sustainable for me, right. To be able to approach that next level?
EMILIE: Yeah. And is the C-suite off the table now, as now you're this fan of maybe napping a bit and career breaks, like, can those two things coexist? Like, are you still the Ambitionista, you know, that you described earlier? How did you come to this? Like, I'm taking a break from my career?
LAURA: Yeah, it's a great question. So a few things. One is, I do think they can co-exist, and I believe they can co-exist. Right. I think being a high achiever, being motivated by continuing to deliver great product, be of great service, being able to contribute to society and within corporate organizations are things that fuel people and that's good, right? I think being able to have that output feels like you can contribute at something so much bigger than yourself. And those are really great things.
I think the other element is that when you start to self sacrifice, when you start to give up sleep, when you stop to, you know, when you start not taking care of your health, when you're starting to experience, you know, physical symptoms, like, you know, GI issues, constant migraines, those types of things are indicators that say, hey, like, this is a little beige flag. Let's take a look at what we can do to recalibrate, make sure that you're resting. I think a lot of people that we talk to and that I connect with as well, right, are those who are working in the evenings and they're working on the weekends. It becomes a seven day a week, 24/7 cycle of being connected to work and giving yourself that permission to rest is so important when you're sick and even when you need to, just to have some recovery time.
EMILIE: Yeah, totally. I mean, the irony is not lost on me here that we're talking about career breaks and you didn't just take a career break, you're now writing a book about taking career breaks. You're also high achieving in the rest and renewal department too, right? And we both are recovering from COVID right now, which we should confess, like, of course we're still having this interview.
So it's like we're not saying we're fully reformed. We're not anti-work, you know, clearly, but we're trying to say, okay, can we be more sustainable? Which I think is a great word to describe it. And I think a career break is such an interesting tool to add to the anti burnout toolkit, but it feels so daunting for folks. What are some of the common fears that you see people have around taking a full on break from their career?
LAURA: Yeah, I think some of the fears are what will people think of me? That typically is one of the big ones is what will my boss think, my family think, my community think if I do this? The other pieces are financial in nature. Right? Most people are concerned around the finances, which makes 100% sense of how can I make sure that financially I can afford to take this time off. And then the third becomes what happens after. So am I going to be able to find a role after the break? And those are really the most common three that hinder people from taking time off for themselves.
Then one of the things I always talk about too, is how do you infuse bite size breaks into your routine, like, that becomes a ritual for you of including bite size breaks. That could mean, you know, a weekend thing. That could mean actually taking your PTO. Because if you think about the number of people, I think in the US that actually fully take their PTO is quite under. If we have 15 days of PTO, people are taking somewhere around nine or ten. We're not taking our full PTO. Those are the types of practices we have to get in a better situation for.
EMILIE: Yeah. I mean, there's so much of American cultures, like, American workplace culture, wrapped up in this conversation. It's definitely a phenomenon and Capitalism.
LAURA: Right?
EMILIE: Like, it just feels like the bottom line here is that the majority of Americans are still living paycheck to paycheck. So it's like, even if you are fortunate to have paid leave in this country, that is not a guarantee which all my european listeners I know, I just know. Are like, what is wrong with America? Like, what is going on here, right, with Americans at our workplace, but our culture. And it's like, if you're even lucky to have PTO, the US Travel Association came up with Project Time Off to encourage people to take their time off, because they're not using it.
So when you think about privilege, and I'm mindful of the fact that I'm also talking to a first generation daughter of immigrants who has had your own fair share with overcoming systemic bias and challenge. Right? We're talking about a woman of color who's a lesbian. Right? Who's like, you're not exactly the poster child of what we think of when we think of privilege, right? But there is so much inherent privilege in being able to financially take that step or take that first step to become in a position to take time off. What do you say to folks who look at the COVID of your book and go, there's no way this applies to me?
LAURA: I mean, I would say I felt the same way. Right? Like, 100% felt the same way. And to your point, you know, my family were immigrants. We lived in section eight housing growing up. And so just the concept, right? Everything that I had been taught as a first generation, you know, Asian American, like, my parents coming over from Vietnam, was like, we work, and we work, and we work, no matter what. And so everything about a career break is almost the opposite of everything that I had learned to. There's so much unlearning as a component of that. I think there was a piece of just trying to understand that my family had sacrificed so much to come here. And when we think about, you know, what they had always said to my brother and I growing up was, we just want you to be successful. And the reality becomes, well, what does success look like? And I think that really became a reimagining for me of, what does success look like? Especially after I had my daughter was trying to think about what is the life that I want to give to these kids, and how do I wanna model being healthy and successful as a high achiever so that I was spending quality time, right? Because the first few years are pivotal to their development.
And that was really key and critical was overcoming that. I think, to your point, around the privilege piece, I am at tension internally around it, of trying to find the balance, right, between, as a female executive who took a step away from work for several months, of recognizing how is it feasible for us as a family, but also how to make sure that we can also give people the opportunity to give themselves permission to rest and that it's okay for us to do that.
You know, I think I had read that the CEO of Guardian Life Insurance actually took a career break and sabbatical, these executives who are taking time off, and she says her ability to be successful in her role is because of the time away that she was able to recharge. And I was fortunate where in my first role, our general manager had taken a sabbatical. And so that was modeled for me really early in my career, of how to take care of yourself, reimagine what is the life and career you want to take and be able to build a future for you that could look different.
EMILIE: And for all the leaders listening, it's a good reminder that we're not only modeling for our children if we choose to have them, but we're modeling what kind of workplace culture we aspire to, regardless of the one we've inherited. Right. We're all contributing to that culture.
So let's talk about the different kinds of leaves that are out there, because there are some that folks have a right to in this country, and there are others that you have to make happen yourself. So, what are the common ways that you see people taking time off, which is just such a radical thing, right, to say, I'm gonna give myself permission to even aspire to this. What does that look like if we have to see it, to dream it? You know, what kinds of leaves have you seen folks take?
LAURA: Yeah, I think the first is most people assume they have to quit. Most people assume they have to quit their job. Nothing lined up, and they're just gonna go unemployed. And that's the initial belief, and trust me, that's where I thought I was going to go to. And so that really is kind of the first piece. I'd say that's probably the most extreme.
The second is, what's a leave of absence? People can take a leave of absence, whether that's paid or unpaid, through their organizations, and those are voluntary leaves of absence. The next is mental health leaves. And so when you think about mental health leaves, what's really interesting about the data around mental health leaves is that it's actually up 25% year over year. The searches around mental health leave are up 25% year over year. It's actually up 43% versus two years ago. And so there's a growth in understanding, you know, because of burnout, because of mental health being at the forefront of a lot of conversations now, we're more open to talking about it, that mental health leave is also an option that people can take. So that becomes kind of a medical leave situation.
And then there's also the other component. Right. When you think about leave, that's a sabbatical. Some organizations actually offer sabbatical programs to employees, and it's something that we don't typically talk about when you're looking at organizations to join or even as a part of a benefit for being at a company. Some of the clients that I've had have talked about that they've taken sabbaticals through work, and they've actually taken a four month sabbatical through their work, that's supported by their workplace.
And so I think that's one of the pieces, is making sure that if you're looking for an organization, if you're in an organization, understand the benefits that your company offers. And if a sabbatical is a part of that, understand the requirements for it, and also just navigate the process of supporting your team, your employer, and yourself through a transition.
EMILIE: Yeah. Are these things that you've seen people effectively negotiate, too? If there is no handbook policy on sabbaticals, it doesn't mean you can't necessarily ask for one. Right. Like, is that something that you've seen folks successfully negotiate for?
LAURA: Yes, 100%. That's a wonderful question. I think most of the time, we don't ask for what we need. Right. And so we typically just assume that it's not possible, and we don't ask for what we need. I've actually had several clients, and I talked about it on LinkedIn, I think, a couple weeks ago, that was specifically highlighting a client who was extremely burnt out. She had gone through several rounds. Her company had gone through several rounds of layoffs. She had taken on multiple roles. So she was a leader in sales and marketing, and she was really struggling with the fact that she went from having a team of 20 to essentially a team of 2. She had now two jobs to run and essentially no budget to run with them.
And so, you know, she had the courageous conversation with her supervisor of, I'm really burnt out. I need some time off. I need to figure out how I can come back better for this organization, but I need to take a step away in order to do that. And they approved it. They approved fully paid leave. That gave her time to rest and recharge to where she could come back and have an opportunity to think more clearly and think about how she would organize her team differently, think about how she would manage and work with vendors differently. It just gave her a reprieve to be able to refuel herself.
EMILIE: Yeah, I mean, it sounds fantastical and definitely like the exception to the rule, but if you put yourself in the seat of the employer and think, how long is it going to take me to not only find her replacement, but then train them up, get them fully up to speed, it's like, this is an offer I don't want to refuse out of hand. So if someone makes that offer to their company, like, smart companies should genuinely consider it as opposed to the costly process of turning over that employee.
You know, and that doesn't even get into knowing your rights. I would refer folks to a better balance, a great non-profit organization that helps you break down. What are my actual legal protections and rights for workers of all different classes and employer size? The FMLA comes to mind. The Family Medical Leave Act, not paid, but a federal right granted to many workers, not all workers. So whatever your country is, whatever your state is, like, know your rights, because you might have access to protected leave, even if it is unpaid, when you need to pull that parachute chute.
So let's talk about the risks a little bit. I think women, in particular, acutely feel the risk of being already someone who's clawed their way to the top, who might already be the one and only, uh, person who looks like them in the room. How can you take a step back, give yourself a break, without feeling like you're jeopardizing all that work that you've put in? Or, god forbid, like, getting back on, like, the on ramp back into the workforce is gonna be so f****** hard. What do you say to folks who wanna set themselves up for a career break without totally jeopardizing their career.
LAURA: You know, exploring the options of what we just talked about. Right. Which is exploring the actual options that your organization offers for you is really the key and critical component. I think as they're looking at negotiating those pieces, it comes down to, like, what is the benefit to the organization? Retention is one. Right? As you were talking about, there's also a re-imagining of what that role could look like and I think that becomes another component.
And then I think the other area, as we start looking at how do you navigate a break is that I think taking time off is one thing. What I really focus on is taking intentional time off is another, which is like, what is your process? What's the framework you're going through that's going to help you manage through burnout? Because you're going to go from a calendar that's probably double booked to nothing. And that evokes panic for most people. And so what they need is a rubric or a model that says, here's how to structure your time so that you can fully recharge, get the creativity back in your life again. That really was fueling you to begin with. And a lot of that comes down to identifying what your core values are, identifying what sparks you, and then actually doing those things.
And then, I think to your point around the risk of re-entry is when you're going through a model, when you're going on a leave program through your organization, then that re-entry has to be, what are the tools in the toolbox to help manage and make this sustainable for you, so that you can start to monitor when you need to set boundaries, when you need to take a look at, you know, how, let's say how your team functions, because most of these people are leaders, is how does their team function? What's the model they have for their team? How do they create psychological safety for their team? All of these things that make you a great leader are things that you have to think about when you're starting to re-enter. Because it comes down to how do you take care of yourself and model that for your team?
And then, you know, one of the things that we work through is, you know, what's your first hundred day plan as a part of re-entry?
EMILIE: Let's dig into that, Laura, because I think what you're describing is such a different vision for a career break than hitting the eject button and rage quitting, right? You're saying, like, let's be really intentional. Let's not burn out to the point where we are absolutely thoughtless about how we take this leave, and that in some ways becomes your insurance policy to this leave, blowing up your whole career. Right?
So whether it's a big leave or not so huge time that you're taking aside, what does that framework look like you described as the compass framework for career breaks? Can you maybe describe, sort of walk us through how you recommend folks manage their time away so that they can be really intentional about coming back with gusto?
LAURA: Yeah, I think one of the things that I recognize is I had interviewed before my break, I had done as much research as I possibly could. Cause I was so burnt out that I was like, I need to figure out a way to do this. And I was like, I'm only gonna do it once in my life, right? So, like, I have to do it right.
EMILIE: Well, this is like, the achiever in you. You're like, I'm gonna take the best career break that anyone's ever taken.
LAURA: One hundred percent. Yeah. I'm gonna, like, do my market research and find the people who had taken breaks and find a way to solve for this. Right? And so when I talked to people, one of the things that they had said was, I wish I had taken more time and I kind of hung out. And then I just got my next job, and I probably should have taken some more intentional steps during this time off.
And so what that led me to was, what I wanted to understand was two things. One, how do I get my mojo back so that I can feel recharged again? And two, how do I make this sustainable so it can be integrated into my life from this point forward?
EMILIE: Ooh. So this is not a one time break.
LAURA: Correct. Yeah. It's about rituals and routines, right? So I broke it into four p's, right? So kind of a four step framework. The first is play, the second is pause, the third is plan, and the fourth is pursue. And so when you think about each of those four phases, especially when you think about play, and you've got a two year old, and so kids around play, there's so much that happens around their development so early in life, right? And they are completely integrated in play for so long. And then what typically happens is, as adults, when you think about how much we play, the numbers are staggering, right? Especially women actually, women actually play, I think, 25% less than men.
And so when you think about the cognitive load, the unpaid jobs, the household work, right? We don't have as much time for play, and women are taught to self-sacrifice and make other people happy. And so there's a lot of unlearning that has to happen. And a part of that comes down to how do you do things? Find ways that interject joy into your life.
EMILIE: Love it. And you start there.
LAURA: You start there. Yes. You have to start there.
EMILIE: What's the thinking behind that being the first phase?
LAURA: Yeah. So the first one was, you got to shake off what you've been through. Right. The concept is you got to shake it off, you know, as the wise philosopher Taylor Swift once said. [LAUGHTER] And so we've got to find ways to recharge ourself. And a part of that is joy, right? Making sure that we're infusing joy back into our lives.
I can't tell you the number of people I talk to and myself included at the time where I'm like, well, what do you do for fun? And it was like laundry, like the carpool, you know, things that I'm alone for, for a moment in time.
EMILIE: Right. Or what we're taught is happy, like happy hours. Those aren't very joyful. Like, booze has, like, been marketed to us as fun. And it's like, hm, is it fun, though? Like, do you have a good time? You know what I mean? So really, I love this idea of getting back into your body and out of your head a little bit.
LAURA: Yeah. And a lot of it comes on. People are like, so what are things that I can do because I can't think of anything. Right? And so, you know, I think, like, Dr. Stuart Brown, who leads the National Institute of Play, right? And he has a really great book on play, has, like, seven different types of personalities for play. And so people can, you know, they might like comedy. So, like going to see a comedian, you might like art. And so you might have paint, right? You might. Or paint or write. You might like to explore, which means you like to travel. And so it's just finding what ways are fun and entertaining for you that help get you into a state of flow, that you're not thinking about being anywhere else but being in the moment.
And it has this kind of elation for you that you can just be there and have fun. And sometimes it's especially with little kids. You and I both have little kids. So it's like, watching them learn something and experience something for the first time is so beautiful. And so for those who, you know, don't have kids or don't choose to have kids, right. There's other ways that you can also look at that. It could be, you know, getting together with friends. Or it could be doing a puzzle that kind of gets you away from your day to day, whatever that might look like. So play has to be the beginning.
EMILIE: Love it. Then what?
LAURA: Then it's pause, which typically is the hardest part for everyone I work with.
EMILIE: It already sounds uncomfortable. Yeah, I'm uncomfortable.
LAURA: Right?
EMILIE: Even thinking about it. Yep.
LAURA: I remember I had a coach who once asked me, she was like, what is your reaction to the word surrender, Laura? And I said, panic. I think my first reaction to the word surrender is panic. And so when you think about pause, it's about there's so much good data around the power of mindfulness and meditation, right? Of being in the moment. And I think, and a lot of that comes down to self-reflection, I think mostly than anything else, is giving yourself the time and the space to be able to be with your thoughts. And that voice that's inside of you that says, this is what I'm looking for. This is what would make me happy. This is the life that I want to lead. And so pause is typically the most challenging because it's the first time, right, in our life that we kind of quiet ourselves, that we're not busying ourselves and rushing to the next thing.
EMILIE: So when you felt like you paused successfully, you know, to put a normative value on that, but when you felt like you paused, what did that look like for you?
LAURA: Well, so, first off, I think pausing successfully is a continuous journey for me, my friend, because I think the challenge, what I learned in pausing and through meditation has been the concept of, we can begin again. Right? Like, we can start over, we can begin again. And I don't have to be doing it well, is probably doing it not well at the end of the day as well.
So, for me, what I recognized was, in pause, I was never great at listening to my body, is the reality. I had had all of these migraines, a ton of GI issues since I was 22 that had nothing really, that had all to do with stress and not really much else. Hence, you know, going through. I think I had a colonoscopy at, like, 23 because I was having so many issues. And all the doctors were saying was, it's very stress related. So I would switch jobs and it would be fine for a little bit, and then the stress would build and it would go over again.
So, in pause, there were two things I learned, which was listening to my body getting ahead of some of the stressors before the anxiety would build too high. So the way I talk about it is, I went to actually a meditation retreat. And the first class I took was introduction to breath work. Okay. And I was like, well, I can breathe, like, you know, I mean, I've been doing it, like, it's fine my whole life. Yeah, yeah, I've been fine up to this point, but I'll give it a shot. So I sat in this class, and the instructor had us go through different types of breathing exercises, and one of the ones that she had was more of, okay, like, a really simple one. Right? Is that, like, breathe in for eight counts? Right. And then breathe out for eight counts. And one of the things she had said was, where do you feel the resistance?
And the truth was, is my resistance was in my exhale. Like, there was almost a wall that I had to exhale through, through that process. And I recognized that, you know, as a part of having challenges of exhaling, where I. I was a constant breath holder. You know, when you're stressed, you typically, like, will hold your breath in those high anxiety moments. And so learning to exhale was also like learning to let go. So it all came back to that coach I had really early in my career who asked me about my reaction to surrender. And it was true. It was, I was holding on so tight that listening to my breath, it was a physical reaction.
EMILIE: Wow, that is wild. Okay. I feel like I have work to do already, given that story. [LAUGHTER] So we prioritize, play, and pause, which, again, I think they both, in different ways, get you out of your head and more into your body. Right? Like, kind of bringing you back to being a human being, not a human doing. And then where does the framework take us next?
LAURA: Yeah, the framework takes you to plan, which is, what is the life that you want to lead? How do you want to show up in the world? What matters to you. Right? And a lot of that comes down to getting clear on what are your core values? Because I think your core values allow you to set boundaries. It allows you to make decisions. It allows you to seek and pursue things that are in alignment to you. And I think those are really key and important.
And then the other area that it also helps you align and understand as well is, what is the career path that makes the most sense for you? And so, one of the things that I had built in the book was a Career Decision Exploration Matrix, which is essentially, you know, as any good marketer would lean to, I would lean to an excel sheet immediately with weighted scoring. And, you know, the thought process was put down. Every idea that you have of anything you've wanted to do and then score them based on how it aligns with your core values, how it aligns with your inherent strengths. You know, is there an opportunity for you to do it within your current role? What's the revenue generation? What's the cost? Right? So, like, let's look at it really logically, and we score those based on that area, and we go, okay, well, what's the top two? And then I'm going to go explore that. I'm going to go give those a try and see how I can make that happen. So that is a part of plan.
The other element to plan is systems, which goes back to tools that we were talking about, right? So that comes down to, you know, I think the number of decisions we make, like, before 8 a.m. is, like, in the thousands, right? And so, like, you're constantly making decisions. By the time that you get to a point, it's decision fatigue. I think there was a study that actually talks about judges. There's a kind of study, uh, that talks about judges who made decisions before noon actually had a higher likelihood of a positive ruling. And then judges. Right, those same judges in the afternoon for the same types of cases actually had a negative ruling, which goes to our decision fatigue happens, and so then our ability to make good decisions, sound decisions, change because we're really optimistic during the day, and that starts to get more pessimistic as the day goes on.
And so, as we think about those things, we ourselves have to calibrate our own decisions. So that means doing a time audit, like, understanding how you're spending your time and then applying Eisenhower's Matrix, right? Which is like, what do you delegate? What do you do now? What do you do later? What do you, like, scratch off the list completely?
And so, I think the key is having the tools in your toolbox to be able to use when you need them so that you can make sure that you can continue to have sustainable success, both personally and professionally.
EMILIE: I just love how palatable this is for someone who might be inherently resistant to taking time off, or to someone whose partner might be inherently resistant to them taking time off. It's like a business plan for your career break, right? You're like, this is how I'm going to get what I need personally out of this time and not sabotage myself professionally at the same time. Like, it sounds so ideal in both of those ways that it just makes it seem more responsible than hitting the eject button by a long shot. Which does not surprise me. Like, this just, it feels like a really well thought through way to get what you need personally and professionally without martyring yourself for an entire, you know, 40 year career.
LAURA: Yeah. And I think the challenge for me to your point is, like, I had to approach it logically, like I had to figure out for myself. Right? So what happened was, is the catalyst for the book Washington? You know, I had seen all of this research and data on sabbaticals, people who had taken a year off, two years off, and it felt too big for me. It felt unachievable for me. And what I wanted was really a 90 to 120 day plan. You know, it's a pilot, as I like to call it. Right? Like it was a pilot program. I wanted to test it and see how I felt in that process.
And what I recognize as a part of putting myself through the journey, coaching now, tons of people through the journey, and hopefully right now sharing this book with people is that it can be achievable and it can be done logically. And I think it's about making sure that, you know, for those of us who can't go and take a year off and travel the world, that you're still able to rest, reset, and recover in a way that is intentional for you, both in your life, but also for your career.
EMILIE: Yeah, I think that's so radical. So just to jump ahead a bit, I know we still have pursue, I think, as the final one I want to get to, but how do you envision using this as a tool in the future? You know, like, how often do you plan on taking career breaks, big or small?
LAURA: It's such a great question. So, like, as I'm going through my own journey right now, it's been two years since my break. And my plan is, is that, like, so the book launches, I'm going to have some time to help promote the book, and then I'm taking some time off after. So the beginning of basically Q1 of next year is going to be a little mini break for myself. I'm celebrating a milestone birthday and so I'm like, I'm going to go and celebrate and just kind of rest and recharge to get ready for what's to come.
So to your point, you know, it's about infusing mini breaks as well into the time. So even today, I use the same kind of 4P Framework as a part of my own weekly planning. So I'll check in with myself. Like, what am I doing that's fun for me this week? And then what am I doing that's going to help me rest and recover this week. And then, you know, I typically do a planning session either on a Friday or a Sunday. And so, you know, and pursue is like, going to do the thing, like, at the end of the day, pursue is so personal.
So going back to, like, where, what does pursuit and how does it fit in? Pursue is so personal. It's about you going and doing the thing that, like, lights you up and energizes you, that you, and only you can do as well. And so I think that's really the key is, you know, making sure that you can continue to pursue your goals on an ongoing basis. And that's just infusing it into your, you know, into your life. That also includes some rest and recovery, some fun and play, and some thoughtful intentionality.
EMILIE: I love that. I recently had Julia Hotz on the podcast talking about her book, The Connection Cure. And what I thought was so interesting about her take was not only how much we are social creatures and need things like play and people and fun, but what you're describing connects us back to our and oftentimes purpose looks like work, whether it's paid or unpaid labor. Like work actually fuels human beings in a lot of different ways.
So we're not saying leave the working world behind. We're saying be intentional about how you pursue your purpose, which is a phrase I come back to on this podcast a lot. How has your career shifted since your first break? Did you end up coming back to marketing? Like what? Obviously, you're an author and you're doing lots of different things, but how has it impacted your career long term?
LAURA: It has shifted my career. That makes me feel more full and fulfilled than I honestly have been in a really long time. So on the book front, you know, part of it was writing the book to help others who are trying to plan their own process for a break.
But really what I've recognized is so, you know, I got two, at this point, almost 3,000 messages on LinkedIn from people who are experiencing burnout. And when I first shared my story on LinkedIn, what I really realized was the amount of talking about connection care, the amount of people who feel alone in their struggle and feeling alone in their burnout. And so, as a part of that journey for me and how I felt so alone in mine, you know, I think I created a few other areas where people just come together.
So we have an online community on Slack where we meet every other week, and we talk about, you know, tools and techniques to help each other. We share each other's stories, most of it, honestly, is story sharing, just to have people connect from all over the world, which is so cool to be able to provide a forum for so many people just to not feel alone.
And then the second is, you know, I started coaching people through their own journey. So I'm a certified executive coach, really. My coaching was gonna be on leadership and professional growth. And what I recognized was, is that so many of these leaders are also experiencing burnout themselves. And so kind of using, again, that 4P model to help them through their own journey has been so fulfilling.
When I left my role, the plan was, is I'd create a marketing firm and kind of go from there. And, yes, I'm still doing that. Like, I still do fractional CMO work, and I'm still helping organizations grow organizations. But I'm doing it in a way that's aligned to me, that I'm working with really great people and really great organizations. And also, I'm helping them identify the sustainable success that's so important for me personally, to make sure that they can take care of themselves, but also achieve, right, exponential growth for their organization just in a way that feels better. So that's really key.
EMILIE: I love that. And we talk a lot here. I'm all about building a blended career. You know, like, Entrepreneurship has its role, I think, in a lot of people, finding the right work life balance for themselves, or blend, if you will, over the course of one's career.
And corporate America has its perks, like, being a W2 employee is pretty great, too. I can speak from experience, having recently re entered a corporate environment for the first time in over a decade, in addition to what I do at Bossed Up.
So, you know, I think there's some good transparency to bring to that, which is, like, what it is now is not what it is forever, necessarily. And, you know, finding that pace of where we can make a living, it would be a little easier if we had affordable childcare in this country, but that's a whole other story. You know, make a living, have your needs met. Saving for retirement, which you touch upon in the book, responsibly, which is a big thing for women who live longer, too.
And also, maybe we should put this on our list of things that would do us all some good. It's like, actually factoring in a career break, which, by the way, is not the same thing as maternity leave, which I'm preparing for right now. Mat leave is not a career break, but, at least not in the way that you're describing it. And what you're describing just sounds so worthwhile. What is your grand vision for how you want to see career breaks become more commonplace in this country?
LAURA: Well first off, let me agree. Maternity leave is not a career break. It is a caregiving break, which is very different because it's barely a break at all when you're, you know, feeding a small human every 3 hours.
So I do think my grand vision at the end of the day is to help people be able to rest and recharge by giving themselves that permission to do so. My initial goal was, I really want to help 1,000 people be able to take the time that they want and need to rest and recover. You know, I think the stats are, I think 86% of millennials plan to take a career break.
And I think the challenge becomes the majority of people who take a break are not using a framework or a model to do it. And so my hope is that the book can help people through the process so that they can come out of a break and be ready to go. Because I've seen so many who struggle, right, with a re-entry portion of it, is I want to make sure that we can get people back into the workforce, whether that's entrepreneurship or back in corporate, and be able to help their organizations be better places to help reduce burnout in totality.
EMILIE: Can you also please start a program for companies that sells them on this as a benefit and then helps them manage this benefit? Because I really think you're the one to do it. Melissa Nicholson was on this podcast talking about job sharing. Her website's WorkMuse.com, and she's like the job sharing disciple I know who teaches not only women how to effectively find one job and split it between two people, but also helps companies figure out how to make this a part of their program and m what the benefits are to all involved, because I could really see you creating this program for companies, making more companies offer this as a benefit, too.
Sign me up for that, and I will have you back on the podcast when you've got that. Because I think that's, like, the next book. Like, here's why you should have this. Here's how to do it right and hire me to, like, execute this for you.
LAURA: Yeah, it's so funny you mentioned that, because, you know, as, as someone who has, like, the now the right writing bug is like, the next book is for companies. Because I think one of the things that I talk a lot about in the book, right, is about what you can do as an individual to help manage your burnout. But there are systemic issues within our organizations that you cannot address in Career Break Compass. It is a completely separate book, to your point. And you know, a career break is one avenue for sure, is being able to offer it as a benefit. But I think the others are, you know, how to train managers to be effective managers, how to create cultures that are productive, but also not leading to such a self-sacrificing mentality where we encroach on people's boundaries. Like, we could spend a whole nother podcast talking about that.
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EMILIE: Are we all having the same midlife crisis? Because I'm starting to pick up on the same tread, but you're speaking my language through and through. Laura, this has been such a joy talking with you. Where can my listeners learn more about your great work, and your coaching, and get their hands on a copy of your book?
LAURA: Awesome. Yep, it's LauraNguyen.co so lauranguyen.co. and if you want to get the book, it's available everywhere books are sold, today.
EMILIE: I love it. I will drop that link in today's show notes, and I'll drop a link to your LinkedIn too, where I know you do a lot of posting. Thank you so much for the work that you're doing and for being here today.
LAURA: Thank you. It's been such a pleasure. I really appreciate you.
EMILIE: For links to everything Laura and I just talked about. Head to bossedup.org/episode480 that's bossedup.org/episode480 as always, you'll find a blog post summarizing the key points that Laura shared, as well as a full transcript. If that's up your alley.
I want to hear what you have to make of this conversation. Does a career break still feel totally out of reach? Totally not possible for you in the short term? How about the medium or long term? Is this something that you're now putting on your vision board for the next ten years? I know I am. I left this conversation feeling like, s*** we gotta talk about this, Brad, because I want to make a sabbatical happen, perhaps after my baby making era, because taking leave to take care of a newborn, which I'm on right now, by the way, while you're listening to this is, as we said, not the same thing as an actual career break, but I love the intentional approach that Laura sets out for us in her book, Career Break Compass.
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As always, I want to hear from you. What did you make of today's conversation? Weigh in in the Bossed Up Courage Community on Facebook or in the Bossed Up Group on LinkedIn, which I've linked to in today's show notes. And until next time, let's keep bossin’ in pursuit of our purpose. And together, let's lift as we climb.
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